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SPN 2x21: All Hell Breaks Loose I
his grief lays waste to the world
innie_darling

The extra onions and pie banter - what a great way to have the boys being brothers, clearly back in step with each other after the separate traumas they endured in "WIaWSNB," and also to remind us that the little things stay true, even after changes (switching out the Impala's plates, ditching the credit cards) have been made.

I really enjoyed seeing Sam take charge with all the special kids. He wasn't bossy or arrogant; he just saw that someone needed to take charge and he did it. Possibly what Sam might have been like as the older brother?

And we also got the sort of flip side to that when Andy beamed images into Dean's brain. I guess now we know what kind of "I'm having a VISION!" faces Jensen would have made had they kept him as Sam.

ALSO - the thing with Mary. Am I alone in thinking maybe that moment of recognition was something the YED manufactured to further confuse Sam into thinking that joining the YED is his destiny? We've only seen Mary recognizing the YED from the YED's POV, after all.

Oh, the ending! We finally get our hug. And the preview with Dean's completely red eyes!

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Good morning! I haven't recovered from this ep yet. You're so coherent!

The extra onions and pie banter - what a great way to have the boys being brothers, clearly back in step with each other

Yes. Before the EPISODE RIPPED EVERYTHING APART AT THE END. (yes. still flaily this morning. Helpme. *clings*)

Am I alone in thinking maybe that moment of recognition was something the YED manufactured to further confuse Sam into thinking that joining the YED is his destiny? We've only seen Mary recognizing the YED from the YED's POV, after all.

Oh, nice point. I've also been speculating that Mary could be a special kid and knows the YED from dreaming about him; maybe he failed to get to her when she was 22.

Also, how does the YED pick which kids he'll bleed on? Do they have a predisposition of some sort or is it random?

I thought the red eyes was an artistic/filter thing they were using just in the preview?

I fake coherence well, I guess.

I like the speculation that Mary's one of the previous generations of special kids; if it's true, I wonder what she could do, and how she got away.

That bleeding thing was gross and confusing. Beyond that I have no thoughts.

Dean looked like he'd been sobbing for weeks in the preview. God, Dean!

Dean looked like he'd been sobbing for weeks in the preview. God, Dean!

Have rewatched! Yes, I see the bit you mean in the preview and also did you catch that exchange with Bobby,"the end of the world" and Dean shouts "THEN LET IT END."

*flails all over again*

I'm like a psychotic see-saw regarding Mary & YED at the moment. Was he messing with Sam's head? Yes, definitely. Was YED lying about different generations? No, canon backs this up. What remains unanswered is did the YED appear to each generation? If so then either Mary was one of the children or someone else in her family was. A sibling who didn't make the grade perhaps?

Gah! All I have after this eppy are more questions than I can poke a stick at. Not the least of which is why is YED making its move now? When its clearly laid the groundwork for more children *flails*

Huh. I think the idea of Mary being a previous YED pick is very smart, but I don't know if I think it had to be her or a sibling. Yeah, and what about the babies of Rosie's generation? Is the YED just getting impatient?

Oh, Jensen and the "I'm having a VISION!" face. Awesome. I also loved the convo.

BOBBY: Dean, you're having a vision.
DEAN: No, I'm not! *clutches head in pain*
BOBBY: That looks an awful lot like a vision, Dean.
DEAN: Just 'cause I'm seeing things in my head doesn't mean I'm having a vision, goddammit!

As for the thing with Mary, I don't know if you've ever run across the original script for the pilot, but Mary's moment of recognition was included in it. And that scene in the pilot wasn't the YED's POV, so even though it's not the way the pilot actually aired I'm voting for Mary's moment of recognition not being something the YED's manufacturing.

That's really interesting, what you're saying about the original pilot. Huh. However, I am one of those stubborn people who thinks that if they chose not to air it, it doesn't count in the same way, so maybe they scrapped Mary reognizing the YED because it was too straightforward?

Hee to your scenario!

Here via the newsletter.

I have a thought about Mary: What if she is one of the "other generations" the YED was talking about? She recognized him because she spent her life trying to escape him? But his pattern had to have been different for that to be true because surely John would have put all that together if her mother had died in a fire or something similarly obvious, right?

I also had a thought about why the demon slashed Mary's belly. I think it was to disguise that he'd bled into Sam's mouth. If she's bleeding onto his face from the ceiling no one's gonna wonder where blood on Sam's mouth came from. I think he cut up Jess like that just because at that point John had to have told Sam everything about the way Mary died and he wanted Sam to know for sure that he'd killed Jess too.

Oooh, I didn't notice Dean's red eyes. *runs back to vcr*

If Mary were one of the YED's chosen kids from the previous generation, though, she must have hid her ability really well, because no way could John have been so straightforward about hunting evil if he knew anything about his wife was out of the ordinary. Right?

But oooooooh! Your thought about the belly-slashing is really interesting! I'm so used to thinking of the placement of the wound as a strike against motherhood, fertility, etc.

In the preview, Dean looks like he's been sobbing for weeks on end.

If Mary were one of the YED's chosen kids from the previous generation, though, she must have hid her ability really well, because no way could John have been so straightforward about hunting evil if he knew anything about his wife was out of the ordinary. Right?

Right. I dunno. *flails* I also wondered if maybe Mary had made some awful Rumpelstiltskin-ish deal. *shudders* That would really complicate her character because she's such a cipher in the show and she functions as a symbol for John and Sam and Dean and for her to have done something like that would be so wonderfully full of angst (much the way Rowling complicates Harry's dad by making him a bully and forcing Harry to consider the fact that his dad was human and sometimes not such a great one).

I guess now we know what kind of "I'm having a VISION!" faces Jensen would have made had they kept him as Sam.

Ha! I'm going to have to go back and rewatch that with Jensen-as-Sam in mind. Heck, I need to go back and rewatch all the eps for that! *looking for excuses*

:D

Poor Dr. Dei! Go, do your research. I have some of my own to do, too.

I took the Mary thing at face value because it surfaced in a pilot draft implying Kripke was toying with the idea before. But you're right that it could have all been a mind game.

But I like it better as the truth in part because it means that although we have seen all 3 Winchesters blatantly lie to each other on screen, we've never seen the demon do it. Delicious.

Good point! The YED has been truthful (though that makes the "they don't need you, not like you need them" SO PAINFUL) in canon. I guess I got used to writing the YED as something that didn't really worry much about the truth. Hmmm. Must think more.

Your speculation is really neat, but almost . . . too hopeful for me to believe. WHAT is this show doing to me?

Ah - but that's the beauty of truth - it can be interpreted so many different ways and twisted. Sam and John TOTALLY need Dean. But not in the same way. Sam does not need Dean to be with him. He simply needs Dean to exist. The ONLY times Sam has well and truly freaked out have been where Dean NOT existing has been a real or close to real -
End of Scarecrow
Faith
The Death Vision in Nightmare
Devils Trap
In My Time of Dying
Somewhat in Bloodlust - when he was worried he was suicidal
The Death Vision (through Ava) in Hunted
The end of What is and What should never be
And his avoidance of Dean's possibly being dead in this last. He starts to admit that people are left behind dead in demon abductions but then changes it to "I don't know where Dean is". He only admits it as a possibility to ... Lily? I think.

But that all doesn't suit the Demon tormenting Dean. He is strictly true but not completely true. "they don't need you... not like you need them"

It's why you should never listen to demons. It's how they get to you - by letting you torment yourself.

Sam taking charge really was kind of wonderful because you could see in JP's performance that he was playing with this little tinge of "this is what DEAN would do," when he was trying to rally everyone together, it was a nice layer of siblingness that really rang too.

Jensen's VISION HEADACHE was almost really funny and if I wasn't so tense, I'd have probably laughed because he was just so ANGRY by it. I bet Dean is a real pain in the ass when he's sick.

Oh, I totally agree! Sam was very much behaving as Dean has all his life.

Dean firmly believes that he's a joy to be around. Even when he's contagious.

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weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeps!

I never thought that the YED could have been lying to Sam - could point about it not being Sam's POV...I personally think the show would be a little more obvious if that was the direction it's taking, but it's fun speculation!! :)

Jensen's head clutching made me grin! :)

I am SO EXCITED for the new ep! All stomach-clenchy and quivery!

Hee I'm just the same dude!! Like, I can't wait and I'm all ANXIOUS (but also...then it's all over, SOB SOB)

Hope all's well with you in general - the house, buying, was it?! and everything! Pheex

Not buying, just renting an apartment, but the NYC market is an atrocious obstacle course and I just hate everything about it. However. I signed the paperwork for an apartment this morning and now I still need to get approved by the coop board, but it looks like I might actually like where I'm living in about a month! Whoo!

How's your trip going?

Well that's fab, I'm happy to hear it!! I can imagine NY is much like London - expensive and difficult!

Trip going great thanks - still working in Sydney but planning my more serious travelling part over the summer. I'll give you a yell when I'm in NYC (Sep 19-27 ish time!)

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